Nesting With The Earley Birds

Super Special Episode 10 - Interview With Opthamologist, Dr. Dan Greene - Retinoblastoma, Early Childhood Eye Development & Warning Signs of Eye Issues in Children

October 08, 2020 Shannon Earley / Dr. Daniel P. Greene Season 1 Episode 10
Nesting With The Earley Birds
Super Special Episode 10 - Interview With Opthamologist, Dr. Dan Greene - Retinoblastoma, Early Childhood Eye Development & Warning Signs of Eye Issues in Children
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Nesting With The Earley Birds
Super Special Episode 10 - Interview With Opthamologist, Dr. Dan Greene - Retinoblastoma, Early Childhood Eye Development & Warning Signs of Eye Issues in Children
Oct 08, 2020 Season 1 Episode 10
Shannon Earley / Dr. Daniel P. Greene

Hello and welcome!  This is episode 10 of Nesting With The Earley Birds - where I have the pleasure of my first official podcaster interview with our good friend and helper, Dr. Dan Greene.  

I hope you enjoy listening to us catch up a little bit on old times, but also hear the incredible story of Dr. Greene saving a young toddler's life.

I am so thankful that Dr. Daniel Greene from Richmond Eye Associates took the time to speak with me today!  This guy is a bunch of fun, but he is also extremely smart and dedicated to his profession.  He has not only saved vision, but he has saved lives!  

You can check him out at https://www.richmondeye.com/our-doctors/daniel-p-greene, and be sure to let him know that you heard about him on our podcast!

And if you have any other questions about eye stuff, you can check out:

https://eyewiki.aao.org/Main_Page

aao.org

Also, feel free to email me at [email protected] with any comments you might have - I'd love to hear from you! How can we improve?  What are we doing well?!

Thanks, and remember, God totally loves you!


****Due to ton's of interest, Dr. Dan Greene (my friend) will be returning to our podcast in the future!


Thank you so much for coming back to us, and welcome if you are here for the first time!

Music: Happy Ukulele by Scott Holmes

Show Notes Transcript

Hello and welcome!  This is episode 10 of Nesting With The Earley Birds - where I have the pleasure of my first official podcaster interview with our good friend and helper, Dr. Dan Greene.  

I hope you enjoy listening to us catch up a little bit on old times, but also hear the incredible story of Dr. Greene saving a young toddler's life.

I am so thankful that Dr. Daniel Greene from Richmond Eye Associates took the time to speak with me today!  This guy is a bunch of fun, but he is also extremely smart and dedicated to his profession.  He has not only saved vision, but he has saved lives!  

You can check him out at https://www.richmondeye.com/our-doctors/daniel-p-greene, and be sure to let him know that you heard about him on our podcast!

And if you have any other questions about eye stuff, you can check out:

https://eyewiki.aao.org/Main_Page

aao.org

Also, feel free to email me at [email protected] with any comments you might have - I'd love to hear from you! How can we improve?  What are we doing well?!

Thanks, and remember, God totally loves you!


****Due to ton's of interest, Dr. Dan Greene (my friend) will be returning to our podcast in the future!


Thank you so much for coming back to us, and welcome if you are here for the first time!

Music: Happy Ukulele by Scott Holmes

Unknown:

Hey, dudes and dudettes This is Shannon Earley hostess of the nesting with the early birds podcast. And I am so thankful that you guys have come back to take some time and listen to what I have to talk about today. And actually, because it is Episode 10, I had promised you guys that I would have an interview. I am super, super pumped, because the person that I'm going to introduce you to is one of the coolest dudes that I know. He's one of the only people in the world that can make me laugh as much, if not more than Evan, and he is one of the chillest yet smartest and greatest guys I know. Not to mention, he's a literal eyeball surgeon. ophthalmologist, here is Dr. Dan green. Welcome to the podcast. Hi, Shannon, thank you so much for having me on. That was easily the best introduction I've ever received in my life. And definitely speaking, I understand that. You're in possession of a brand new brand spanking new microphone. So you really hit the big leagues with with the podcasting. And I wish you well with it. I'm imagining your setup is something along the lines of the 1920s. radio announcer microphone. Ah, dude, I want one of those, like the ones that are on an arm, you know where they can, and they have the big circle in front of it to talk into. I wish I had that. No, that's a little out of my budget right now. But maybe we can just keep sharing this. Then one day it will be in my budget and will be great. Something to aspire to. And I will invite you on to have an interview with that microphone. I'll just keep swinging it back and forth. We'll take turns with it. It'll be great. It'll be totally COVID friendly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, dude, actually, I do have this vintage desk. So you are really close. It's like a 1930s dresser that used to be for this lady. And it's really cool because there's still this little slot where you can put hairpins. Whatever. I digress. That's where I put my computer. Yeah, dude, it's pretty slick. I got it for free. So that's always my budget. Man. I'm so glad you're here. Early household between that and some of the work that your husband your challenge your husband has crafted over the last couple of years. Yeah, dude, he's such a dang Angel. That guy is like the most humble. You would never know that. He's like the man of fourth out. He's like the Renaissance man. You know what I mean? Like all I can do everything. But he wouldn't tell you that. Cuz he's humble, right? Or no, he paints. He loves she loves. Listen. Beloved audience, maybe a little bit about how we know each other, obviously, for having your husband. I know my sweet, sweet husband. I know. A young man. He actually introduced you to me before I ever even do. Do you remember his old man that he called the Millennium Falcon? And it was like gross. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Well, wasn't my favorite. No, it was one of the most embarrassing I remember. He picks me up for the first time on a date. And he had like NPR jazz playing. And then it was the effing van and it opened up and it smelled like must and just like ball sack. I was like, great. I can't wait. And we actually one of our first dates was hanging out with you. So that is weird. That's really weird. That's right. That's right. That was a feels like not too long ago but it was some years back no doubt but uh, yeah, it's been a it's been a fun long read with you guys. And I just happen to jump onto I should also mention before we start it's been a pleasure listening to your, a couple episodes through with your podcast and you know, they're they're difficult to listen to their personal obviously, about your children, specifically with Luca, dealing with the growth hormone disorder. And I learned a lot I didn't realize, you know, with all this pandemic nonsense going on, we haven't spent tons of time face to face so it was important to learn about and, and again, to be able to hear what you guys are so strong, and we all wish you the best and I'm glad you're getting through it. But yeah, it's it's a it's it's your natural. What can I say? Stop being nice. You know, Arielle, and I both laugh as my wife both laughed about your cat butthole references. Yeah, like one of those children's books where there's like a cat butthole on every page that will be my pet. episodic format, where can you find the butthole? Stop talking about me? This is about you. Okay? Listen, evidence, his life has been crazy A f basically, since it started together. So there's a lot of great content there, I can tell you, but actually, so you're a doctor and I have other friends that are doctors and they're all like, man, I love the information that you put on there, like, you know, the medic medical stuff and other people who like, you know, a lot of it just went way over my head. Whatever, listen, I think it's important to get a lot of that out there. I think parents in particular, are appreciative when they can kind of get different sources about medicine, especially, especially specialties, I think are taught them. And you obviously, obviously had quite an introduction to the endocrinology field. Biology, many specialists but maybe not so much on the AI front, although I think I recall one of your kiddos you had a question about eye movements, which you can get into just kind of common stuff that maybe freaks parents out a little bit that should be versus some things that might, you know, draw your attention a little bit more, depending on what's going on. So yes, more information and happy to, to participate. Yeah, man. Speaking of what Dr. Dan did for our family. He actually has a practice that's in our area. I don't know if like, I'm allowed to say that practice you're at or anything but sure. Yeah. Yeah. Richmond associates. We got a few locations around town. My main hub is the middle of the clinic. So come on down. Yeah. Yeah, dude, no, we don't typically see kiddos. I'll make exceptions for friends kids. Yeah, dude. Dr. Greene, you are a badass because I mean, I'm gonna call you Dan, but like, I call you, Dr. Green for the folks out there, you know, but, dude, you're such a badass. You might not remember. But we had to call you after hours because of a lightsaber incident. Where our son thin. Okay, we have this like automatic animatronic Yoda who has a lightsaber? And he goes, Yeah, yeah, I mean, like waves around. Well, the tip of it was broken. And it's this hard plastic or whatever. And my kids are fighting with it. And Finn ends up poking evangelii in the eye with this lightsaber. And she's like, I'm blind. And you had to check her out after hours. It was so nice. Oh, of course, it was my pleasure. And Evangelion was just so calm. I remember she was a model patient. Fortunately, it was just a minor corneal abrasion. It can always be worse. It's never a bad idea to get it checked out. So shield upgrade. Yeah, did speaking of seeing worse though, and like helping friends. Dan, you got to share. You guys. You got to hear the story. It's absolutely incredible. Like Dan's a literal hero. He literally saved somebody's life. Um, do you want to maybe share how that happened? Yeah, it's always good to revisit, in a way just such an incredibly personal story, an important story. Certainly. You know, all the patients I've seen and continue to treat me two years, this one is probably the one that's going to stick with me. Throughout my life, no doubt about it. So I was in training ophthalmology. In a nutshell, it's of course, a specialty of medicine go to med school for four years. Did that at UVA. And then we moved up to New Haven where I did end up at the end of the year of kind of general internship. And you can pretty much pick any specialty there. I did sort of like a rotational medicine one. And after that your your often ology residency begins and that's three additional years. And so we did all that in New Haven at Yale, moved into a nearby town called Milford strange stuff there. My dad actually grew up in that town so it's just it wasn't partway. That program made the list it was really cool to catch up with long lost cousins cousins, aunts and uncles and so forth. Dude it's gorgeous UP THERE YOU KIDDING That place is like a picture book. That's true. It wasn't meant to be long term. challenge was just kind of moving up there as is your face in any situation like this just kind of not knowing people. We had some neighbors in this cute little, you know, suburban town. And that we a couple we met right away and got on with but actually our next door neighbors to our left. had a nice young family. You think we would have hit it off right away. But I think that was something like that awkward interaction or no, not with you, Dan. No way. Just find some new friends. Yeah. You know, it's just one of those things. First impressions don't don't always last, nor should they, and a lot of cases because, you know, within a year to really think about the years but our first kiddos born Sabrina, she's now eight. And it's funny when you have a kid, so much changes in your life and and, and you need a lot of help. And I think that was such an easy and natural icebreaker to sort of get to know those neighbors a little bit better. Within, you know, months, I feel like we were just so much closer, just by virtue of having a baby, we just go over for they give us things to borrow or just to have, right. And then within you know, once Sabrina was growing up and started develop a little personality around after she turned one, kind of, you know, you know, timeframe between one and two year old sheep started to really interact with the other next door kids, they had two older, their three kids total, two older sisters and the youngest. I'm going to use a pseudonym here just for anonymity sake, we'll call her Maggie was born right about when Sabrina was actually very similar age. So they, they they were fit as a fiddle or peas in a pod. And they were they were tight and they you know, run around our yard, their yard chasing each other just so cute, fast friends. And it was great that we became closer to them as the years went on. So that's pretty much around the start I think of my final year up there. And I think it was like a Friday night and I'd gotten off of a shift came home and I was still in scrubs I think and then their family the mom I think asked us to come on over come over have a beer How's it going? Like I just kind of small talk and then we were I'll never forget this we were standing in their kitchen kind of around sunset the witching hour. And and she asked me she said you know Dan, strange stuff here. You're an eye doctor. I think I'd bug you every now and then I take a look at Maggie's I think was her right eye and she said yeah, we don't in the light catches it a certain way and just it's kind of weird to me. It's it's like pale or just kind of a weird shimmer to right. I'm just thinking okay, my time with these funny questions, right? Kind of like a dermatologist getting the Hey, what's this? Right shoot on my skin? Totally. Yeah, dangerous or not. So, buddy, happy to help. So I kind of just said, okay, Laila. Maggie's on the ground wrestling with Sabrina and and so I think she was lying down there. Were right here, a door with a window and it's in light did catch that I in a certain way. And I got an immediate like kind of this visceral reaction. What is that and I took my phone out looked a little closer. And what I'm doing here is what a pediatrician will do to a newborn. You're using lights right now to look for the red reflex. We all know about that from photographs. And that's all I was doing was just kind of figuring out okay, normal on the other side, they sighs I've given me that reflex. It's got some paler, sort of a weird shimmer, like her mom said, I agree. And I just tried to be calm as much as I could. What are you thinking? Well, by that point, I had a quick differential diagnosis in mind, you've got all manner of things. Yeah. Anything that basically blocks light can do that sort of thing. So a cataract unlikely, but a corneal problem on the surface of the eye. Kids can be born with cataracts, believe it or not. But then other things come up like an actual tumor inside of the eye. And of course, your mind sort of goes right to the worst possibility even other things like retinal detachments, anything that would would would disrupt that light reflex could be going on. So anyways, I just sort of talked to the mom and said, that's worth checking out. We'll we'll definitely get into Plex. really soon and go from there. And I just went home that night, I called up my best friend called Russia and kind of told him what I saw. How do we plan to play this out? Any advice? And so we kind of figured out who was going to be at the I was on a rotation where I was kind of in charge of our own resident clinic near within the hospital. And so the nice thing about that is attending surgeons from different specialties in that hospital in ophthalmology would come down and staff that clinic so we can almost kind of plan out Oh, do we have a pediatric person that day, just so happened, I thought it would be a good idea to have a retina person who sees a lot of kids or an oncologist basically, who would see adults and kids. It was like going to be that Monday or Tuesday coming up to be there. Because I knew that that was a distinct possibility, that scary diagnosis. So we get some plastic, dilate the eyes. And again, one of those moments I'll never forget is I just take one peek inside of her eye and you just know what it is. And because we've studied it, we've seen classic photographs of a very particular diagnosis of cancer that kids can get, it's not the meaning of all that, but it's, um, it's a diagnosis called retinoblastoma. It's just this kind of cauliflower white appearance, polluted ton of the right, and I could barely just see a sliver of normal right now, it can cause kind of a local retinal detachment. And I just kind of backed away, took a deep breath and just talked to her parents out in the hall. And it's a tough conversation that to say the least, that's a that's an understatement of the year. I can't even imagine them that it would be a very difficult day. It was, it's an incredible, you know, situation, I got a little context to this. And one thing I was thinking about earlier today is either it's you've discussed a fairly rare condition with your kiddo, this is a rare situation, it's something on the order of it's under 300 kids are diagnosed with this cancer a year in the United States. And I just happen to be living next door to one of those, you know, under 300 kids that year. So that odds are just bizarre. It's insane. And not just that you knew what it was when you saw it, even though it was so rare, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so I felt that this was the the moment to kind of just Buck up and just put on put on the best face, I can. And I knew that I was going to matter to them in that moment. I mean, it was, on the one hand, so difficult to know them personally. But at the same time, I, I'm sure they appreciate it, you know, having that personal touch of being sort of guided at least at the outset here but with with somebody that they were close with? Well, yeah. And then and that's the part of how you're such an approachable person, like you're one of them. I would say You and I are probably the most outgoing people. I know. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, but you're such an approachable person, you think most people don't want to just go up to their doctor friend and be like, Hey, can you look at my eye shimmer, you know, but the fact that they were able to ask you and kind words there and but she was also doing the motherly thing. And she, you know, she was concerned and she did the right thing by saying something. And so yeah, it was, um, I could I can it's all been sort of a sad story so far. I mean, they're it's hopeful at this point. Well, I'll add in a little bit depressing twist to let's talk about the actual cancer. Well, I love depressing twists is, it is it's not great in terms of the prognosis. Most of these eyes, you know, when you're usually fairly advanced. And it's tougher, probably a good segment of the audience to hear just because it involves eyes. But unfortunately, the treatment of choice for a good percentage of these is actually removed, die. And that's where it gets tough. But it can be literally as he put it, life saving. And it's just got to happen. Because if it's left to its own devices, like other tumors, it can see other parts of the body. Well, it's close to the brain to right like, correct, yes, it can be a local invasion. And fortunately, the workup was all negative. The other I wasn't involved. That happens, I believe about a third of cases. So that's, that was great. And then to get to the some of the hopeful stuff, we've got a transition at some point here. As you know, with your own and others, that they're so adaptable, and yes, it's awful on the parents, and it was not Yes. So it was an awful couple of months and yon but, you know, once the surgery happened for her, and she was recovering, it's a work of art to see ocular prostheses, by the way, they're amazing to look at what they can sort of do in terms of mobility. Of course, the eye looks a little different, and it can have some impacts on sort of the eyelid, and so forth in terms of cosmetics, but as she grows up and they sort of replace the thought of sort of fit the size as the child grows. quite amazing. And the thing is, is a kid losing and I compare that to someone like Rh losing Who do you think that's gonna traumatize? Yeah, yeah, they really get through it. My co resident I called that night. That first night he told me pretty soon after that he had a co resident in medical school who had the same diagnosis my Goodman's was prosthesis he can live a full normal, if not Exceptional Life with this and and that's the key word is just the life party. I gotta gotta get it diagnosed and treated properly. So that that is a That is really the most common way to diagnosis sort of that loss of red reflex. And then the second most common would be if kids if the kids is drifting kind of in or out. That's oftentimes telling you that that I, for whatever reason is not the most common cause of that be I cancer. But yeah, there's something going on with like a lazy eye. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. So that's another way. I guess to clarify, if one has a lazy eye, that diagnosis is far down the list, but in the realm of possibility. So these are important things to look out for kids right out of the gate. Again, the red reflex happens in newborn screening, and then some of the lazy eye stuff develop later on. But I'll stop talking. Now. That's a lot of information about that. No, that's great. So what about? Okay, here's a question. You had said, the loss of red reflex. Oh, how do you check it as a mom or dad, like, what are you supposed to look for? Or you just trust the pediatrician, you can literally take a photo with LaShawn. For that normal tip, make sure the red reflex filter or whatever is off and just look for that. And take multiple photos because the most you know cause of the loss of reflexes, probably nothing wrong. It's just the angle or, or the lighting was off like that. But if it's a consistent sort of thing, gosh, that right? I never quite as read looked at the other does. It's worth checking out to see a pediatric ophthalmologist to see if there's any, any trouble there. As for the eye movement stuff, I think what I was alluding to earlier is I thought one of your kiddos had sort of a wandering eye or Yeah, so actually on in the beginning, that's great. Luca in this poor friggin kid, dude, he has just been when you talk about kids being adoptable and stuff and how it's a lot harder on the parents. It is absolutely true. But like, I am not kidding, dude. Even yesterday, I was crying to Evan, like, why does he have to go through all this? This is anyways. But he in the beginning, we thought he was blind because he was our fourth kid. And he wouldn't like look at us or follow us across the room or certain things like if he would wipe your hands in front of his face, you know, he wouldn't blink or get startled or anything. And he also would have a lazy eye, which we got checked out. And I guess the doctor said that it it was kind of typical in that age group or whatever that it, it can happen. But he does still have it when he's tired. What do you think about that? Is that just the thing? Y'all will further for the initial phase of it here when it was going on under six months of age very common for water or really both eyes just to sort of wander a little bit. If it's one thing if one is, you know, persistently deviated inwards or outwards like we're checking out there but no, I think one of our kids it might have been actually with our youngest even I think he had some some idea thing, you know, just kind of wonky AI kind of stuff going on during the first six months is pretty common. On afterwards, even what you're describing, you can be fairly normal, certainly during states of fatigue and, and so forth that can happen even in adults with eyes drifting a little bit after a little alcohol or sedated medication, things like that, you have to do it. So I think the key thing is to look for a persistent, you know, pattern there, whether it's one one or the other sort of deviates in or out, and then that instantly checked out. Because if that continues and it's not treated for whatever, if the underlying cause that's not treated, they can lose vision, that's Oh, I didn't know that. A sign of one of the eyes. The refractive differentiate one I really farsighted the other ones not for instance, that sort of imbalance that I with the more extreme prescription will start to move like that. And so that also needs to be sprayed. Oh, that's really interesting. So you are not step one, right as an ophthalmologist. Would it be like optometrists and ophthalmologists? Like how does that work? Yeah, well, I mean, the basic screening stuff happens with with really pediatricians and of course later on by schools, that's all reasonable methods of screening and appropriate unless you really think there's something significant going on a lot of the typical screenings while child visits are done by pediatricians and yeah, I'm sure that some variability with with the exam techniques there but they should be checking for things like red reflexes and eye alignment and some basic vision tests can definitely happen you know, starting using page four or five you don't have to even know your letters. They have different you know, shapes and and and other means that sort of testing vision that can happen even today. Yeah, dude. screens important. You know, it can be done, obviously, through a variety of methods. depending on the age, you're looking for different stuff. So, you know that we talked about the newborn screening and then really just the basics with with infants, you know, once you hit about age, two months, you know, it's certainly talked about kind of tracking things kids should be able to sort of, we call it fix and follow, you know, for some interesting that gets their attention. They should be able to kind of smoothly pursue it with their eyes, at least for a few seconds. Dude, you're hella smart. And now, okay, thank you so much for all your super smart surgery, ophthalmology things. Dr. Dan, for all of you. Yeah. And in case you didn't get it, Dr. Dan green works at Richmond I associate. He is mostly in the Midlothian, Virginia area. And if you feel like you need an appointment with him, you can feel free to give them a call at 804-270-0330. Dr. Green, do you have any more resources that people should look at if they're interested in getting more information for their kiddos? Oh, of course, there's some great, reliable information online. Our Academy is called the American Academy of ophthalmology a Oh, for sure. Not a Oh, calm and kind of just search through pediatric topics. That's all legit stuff. For a less formal sort of deal. There's actually no love wiki set up, right? So if you ever need to look up a diagnosis, and one of the first links that pops up is something called eye wiki. That's got great information. I think a lot of that's written by residents if you used it many times during training and beyond just just to look up some basic stuff. So there's there's good information out there. Oh, is this the part where we pause for like a zip recruiter? I know. Yeah, actually, it is a requisite number of followers. Yeah, yeah, I have to get just a little bit more and then people are gonna hear non stop anchor ads. It's gonna be amazing. I'm literally trying to get an endorsement like a sponsorship right now. And there's this thing where they show you like sponsors that are available and it's for eczema cream. Oh, dude, I should be enough to be fabulous right out of the gate. Like the brothers who clean out gutters. Yeah, I'll be like, I put this cream on my cat's butthole butthole cleaners. That's exactly. That's right. Episode 10. Cat butthole eczema cream cleaning. Yeah. All right, Dr. Green. Mr. Dan, get ready because I've got some questions for you, homie. Are you ready? I'm gonna set well. Okay, you know what I'm gonna do? Alright, pick number one through 200 Oh. What does it say about me if I pick a number between Okay, let's do y 79. Now, okay, that is a really, dude. 179 is the only one that doesn't have a fucking friggin a, like actual sentence. It just says, money. Question. What are you? What are you doing? Actually, I'm not calling ah. Is it supposed to be questions to ask? questions related to eyes? No dude related to knowing a person. Like, like rap. Okay, for instance, like number 170 says, Are you a dog or cat person? Okay, well, I didn't take 100 and 71st of all but yeah, no. Absolutely. Dog so I do kind of cringe every time you say cat butthole because I wish it was dog. butthole Oh my god. Dude, 179 The question is just money. Oh, yes. with a question mark. What does that even mean? Money? Yeah. All right. Let's see. All right, let's see number 34. Didn't didn't. Okay, number s in this. Okay, if you were famous, what would you be famous for? Oh, my. Well, you beat me to it. I think hosting a successful podcast would be right up there. Really? That's your jam. Top of so many different people and you're sort of micromanaging and control total control of everything. Yeah. A lot of fun though. No, dude, I love it. No, you already Famous now the way that I like to say this, I mean, obviously I really enjoy. I really enjoy traveling, and eating, trying new food and so forth kind of that four day and lifestyle rip. Yeah, but yeah, I recognize that, you know, the grass is always Yes, must be taxing and strenuous. And you know, I would probably miss home after three weeks, so I'm not sure about that one. And well, just three weeks would be nice though, right? Just like, oh, I'll take three weeks. I know, right? I know. We love our kids like we love them because you do have three. You have a new one. Well, he's not super new, but he's halfway new. pretty new. Yeah, he's he. Does he have any teeth? 17 teeth, one tooth? Something like that. 1710 or 12? I don't know. I love them. So my husband's name is Evan spelled e v A N. and Evan told me to say that Dan's son's name is effin. I could be wrong. He said he that you named him after him. But you use the version instead of the cell the name we do love the name of it. But he's got a cousin named Devin and you know, an honorary uncle named Evan now so. Yeah. Okay. Another question. Go. Go for another number. Well, I did just see bill and Ted three, so 69 Oh, snap. pretty solid. Yeah, you my mouth stuff. All right. Last question for today. Are you ready? Yeah, well, suit. Okay. You get to pick between these two. What is one thing that annoys you the most? Or what is the most disgusting thing you've ever eaten? Kind of like both question and do it, Dan. No, no, I'll choose wine. annoys me. Really? You're picking that one? that's a that's a toughy. Probably willful ignorance. I don't think I think we're seeing too much of it. Or too much of it these days. Yo, preach it fine. Get it? I just I just I just threw it down. I'm tired of it. Oh, five countries do so. Tell me this is your time, bro. Tell me. That's right. I'm just gonna go off. So it's. And I think there's less out there than you would think folks who are willfully ignorant, for some reason tend to be sort of the loudest. Yes, that's the worst part. But yes. Yeah. And then the most disgusting thing I've ever eaten cheese. Nothing is ever cooked. That's for sure. You love that lady. I know. She's great. I'm probably something I made at some point. Okay, actually, it was something Was it your frickin Cuban nachos? Dude. I can rock out some nachos. No, this was something I haven't thought about this one so long we I was it was during the Courtship of Arielle at some point. Yes, we were back at UVA for possibly early med school and and I tried to cook or something nice. A chicken. Some sort of safe chicken with mushroom sauce. veal I was gonna throw down you know? Yeah. And and it comes from We both are avid salt fans. Yeah. You can't like oversell anything for us. So when I saw it, you know the amount of salt using this recipe. I was like, let's do it. Oh, no, I'm misremembering. I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah. So I'll get it right. That it was baking powder was required for this recipe, and I reached out and grabbed the baking soda. Oh, they're very different. And very different. And the call calling for like a cup of this crap. Chicken. What about my merry way? Perfectly by the way. Otherwise fine, but it was just the first bite you knew. Oh my god. I mean, it was it was an animal so disgusting. The least edible thing I've ever heard. We just kind of pushed it to the side laughed about it. And yeah, that happened. And we just saw vomit and marry me. So. Yeah. Oh, you guys. She is an amazing cook, actually. Well, Dr. Green dude, it was such a pleasure having you here. Thank you very much. Please be my guest again. Consider it. That was fun and great, great way to catch up. We'll do a person sometime real soon. But best of luck with the podcast. It's been a joy to listen to. And yeah, take care. All right. Thanks, man. Talk to you later. All right. Bye. Hey friends, guys, I really hope you enjoyed me and Dr. Green visiting and chatting with each other. That dude is so smart. I'm so glad he came on the show. And I'm so glad that you came here to listen. Thank you very much. If you have any questions that you want me to ask him for next time, feel free to email me at nesting with the early [email protected] Follow me on Facebook at nesting with the early birds is our public page. And please share this there might be somebody that needs to know more about their baby's eyes. Thank you so much. Let's continue growing this. All right. I'll talk to you next time.